A-Kerr's Bengal cats since 1989

I am often asked questions from breeders and people curious about genetics.  This is a question and answer section to help with the understanding that I have been able to verify over the years.  If you have questions, feel free to ask. Addressed so far:

Question from a fellow breeder:  

I am still wondering about those spots too. The spotting gene vs. the broken classic or stripe. And if those rosettes HAVE to come from a marble. The Houston zoo has a small cat area, and I took several interesting pictures. 
There ARE cats in the wild with outlined spots. The spots are very distinct and so is the outlining. Do these breeds have classic/marble influence?  Is this distinct outlining something we don't really know about yet? I have taped some of these pictures to my computer so I wonder about these spots a lot since they stare me in the face daily. Does anyone have information about these outlined spots?  

Libbie: 

Logic says to us that these non-domestic cats are homozygous for spotting, since that is all that we see... on the main, in the non-domestic. Now I am talking about the Asian leopard cat since that is our gene pool for the Bengal. There are King Cheetahs among the spotted kin... with an even smaller gene pool... and of course the clouded leopard... but the Asian leopard cat is all spotted. Correct? 

Some of the BEST outlined Bengal cats that I have seen, do not even carry marble... they are homozygous... they are also very horizontal in pattern, and their patterns are distinctly different from a broken mackerel and broken classic. 

When you realize how we are just now beginning to understand some of the factors in genetic inheritance, you can see how the introduction of these non-domestic traits will take quite a while to know what influences what.  From my own experience, I feel that it is much more a matter of selection of traits NOT found on the domestic phenotype... this is done through careful selection, in my opinion, and not by the introduction of more Alc blood. In fact, many of the best patterns I have seen are from later generations. 

I have noted in the Orientals deep patterning on the spots... and the classics, going all the way from tip to skin, I have seen fabulous rosetting on the Occicats, clarity of background on the Egyptian Mau... etc.. All of these traits are there... and we learn from each other. 

The hard thing to discern is how to select.... for that we need: time, patience, and luck! 

Pat:  (a very respected cat advocate of another breed, asks these questions of me)
I have been curious also about the 'hybridization' aspect and what that augers for the immune systems of the cats. I believe that there were some immune issues arguing in favor of the hybridization that created the breed in the first place? Something to do with natural immunity to feline leukemia? Can you elaborate?

Libbie:    Bengal cats are not immune to feline leukemia. The Asian leopard cat has the ability to fight feline leukemia, a viral cancer. It has been studied extensively by the National Cancer Institute. This immunity does not seem to be passed on. I do not have the stats on this. An interesting aspect of this is the work done on feline genome, by Leslie Lyons, was based on the Bengal cat. 
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Pat: 
One of the things I was surprised to learn from you Bengalites is the frequency and need to repeatedly dip back into the wild stock. 

Libbie:
I do not agree  that most Bengal breeders feel a need to repeatedly dip back to the wild stock... I certainly do not and neither do a lot of breeders. Recessive genes are brought out by selective breeding. While there are breeders who continue to breed to the Asian leopard cat, TICA itself has placed the Bengal in the category of ESTABLISHED BREED with no need of further out-crossing. Jean Mill came out several years ago with an editorial request for breeders to put a date on the stopping of the out-crossing. This is controversial... and some very strong feelings are aroused when the topic is brought up. Personally, I feel that continuing to breed to the Alc does not help our breed. Thus I work with later generations.
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Pat:
I would think that necessity would make it a continual project to 'breed for health,' as you have not yet stabilized the breed. 

Libbie:
Again, I agree with you that to continue to breed out does not stabilize the gene pool and creates issues that are hard to track and resolve. Those who say that hybridization is necessary for health reasons do not put value or understand the dynamic of selective breeding. This is stated by people who have early generation cats and not necessarily found to be true. 
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Pat:
Also, I wonder if that hybridization is not the source of your special food needs for Bengals (at least your F1, F2s)...as infertility in early crosses is a given, surely one could assume there would be other 'down sides' as well. 

Libbie:
It more than likely is. But I feel Science Diet Growth dry and Nutro Max.... I find the temperament of the foundation cats to be way to leery of humans and to perhaps cause them undue stress when asked to live in human environments. Remember, the Asian leopard cat has survived by avoiding humans and we are trying to produce an interactive confident cat... this takes, by genetic reasoning and anecdotal evidence, three generations. I personally have observed that the shy cats seem to have a weaker immune system and fail to thrive. Over the years I have eliminated shy cats from my breeding program and coincidently, have done so by breeding for health! 
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Pat:
Weeding those out and picking up the apparently healthy direction must be a very demanding pursuit. For that reason alone, developing knowledgeable and reputable breeders for your breed must be a primary responsibility in protecting and nurturing the Bengal as a breed. 

Libbie:
The popularity of the Bengal has brought in many, many new to breeding individuals with no training or mentoring. Our breed has grown at a tremendous rate... and is the driving force of TICA in many ways. This is sad to me, because what tends to happen is young, untested-genetically animals are placed in breeding programs with novice breeders and we have problems. I find that until you have a cat's grandchildren you do not know what is carried, and even then you are making your best guess.

In conclusion, I would say I feel we should be breeding for is health/temperament... and I feel the two go hand in hand. I have found over the years of breeding Bengals that one often selects the other. 

Health selection should be our top consideration.... I am not wanting to create a pro/con debate here, so please understand that my view is not shared by all Bengal breeders.... but I am confident of my experience. 
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A new breeder asks: "I would be interested in the original question -- what are the problems with breeding a cross-eyed cat?"

The problem is that you perpetuate a known recessive that will show up in later generations. As Ellen has quoted Don Shaw saying "Recessives are forever"... I have found this over and over again to be true. There is
often no way of knowing what a line is carrying until you have the grandchildren (thus the 3 generation breeding rule after an outcross in (TICA) Why is this...? A recessive will not show up in the first generation offspring... it will not be in the phenotype, but will be in the genotype. So the next generation will have more likelihood of exhibiting it in the phenotype as well.... that leaves you one more generation to work  on the problem. 

We have introduced many recessives into the Bengal gene pool. Some we actively seek, some we actively seek to eliminate. Color and pattern recessives are much less dangerous than structural recessives, but at this
point in our breeding, I feel we have plenty of Bengals out there to choose from for our breeding programs. 

Would I breed the cross eyed seal lynx? NO. But it is not a moral issue, it is an issue of reproduction based on known facts of recessive inheritance. 

It takes many flaws: tail kinks, lockets and crossed eyes... time to be seen. So, whenever you place a breeding kitten, know that you are placing an unknown.... 

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Next question from a cat list.... a new breeder commenting on breeders (who) "sell breeding cats to whomever will shell out some dough. How does that better our breed? Any of those defenders want to explain how this betters the breed? I am extremely interested."

Libbie responds... not because she readily sells breeders (grin) 

I find this an interesting question and dilemma.... and one that I note when I read the messages from people who are wanting to begin breeding Bengals. I know that if any of them called me, they found a breeder very unwilling to sell them a breeding cat... but my reasons are often not understood in a simple phone conversation. I know that there are many breeders who will sell breeding cats readily with little scrutiny (by my estimation) , but I am not 100% sure that is a wrong approach for them. 

I have often considered the fact that if someone with my hesitancy to sell breeding cats, had begun the Bengal breed it would still be in the experimental stage and not much further advanced. So, I think well.... in this case maybe the reality is not all that bad.... 

But then I look at someone like myself, who sells very few cats for breeding... because of the amount of love and time I have put in a kitten, and how attached that kitten is to human contact, I do not want to think of that kitten as an adult housed in a cattery or cage... or valued more for what is produced than for the cat itself. An interesting perspective, it does not have to do with competition... it has to do with my concern for quality of life for the cat, and ironically, often for the unsuspecting people... (many have no idea what it is like to live with howling females in heat, or males and females spraying... the smell, the noise, the chaos....) 

But then when a cat is sold into a breeding program, I find that I often make an error in judgment. Thinking one thing, but finding a very different reality... and that is with the use of contracts, a lot of conversation and a hopeful complete understanding.... I have found that you simply do not know. So the cat you sell into a breeding program is a cat that you loose a right to have a say in the future.

So, I see both perspectives. I have bred for years, keeping records, feel strongly that we way over use young, untested lines, and yet I have lines with grandchildren and great grandchildren and I do not often sell the lines into breeding........ to a certain extent, these are the lines we need. 

I know that each of us is doing what we feel is the best. 

Those with underfoot catteries, who let everyone run together think this is best, though as a list member of the FIP list, I will tell you this is not a recommended practice. It allows disease, etc. to spread with no control.

Those who cage in small cages have cats that are not exposed, but also have cats not exposed to movement.... There are many list members who violate city ordinances, live in fear of someone checking out their situation, live with toxic urine fumes that can be smelled outside their front door... my list can go on and on. Many of the first time breeders get themselves in terrible situations, or in situations that they at best did not plan to be in... with health issues etc. 

So what ends up being my response? I will continue to sell very few cats into breeding programs, especially males. Others will continue to sell to anyone.... the ideal is probably somewhere in between. I am considering keeping my studs and offering stud service.... but then there is disease to consider.... In the end, I do not recommend breeding to anyone... even have a web page up about it.... but I also know that if the breed were dependent on my mental movement and approval, we would not be where we are
today. 

I have opted for education, for setting an example, and for being cutting edge on the side of health and temperament.... I want lifelong companions for my cats and my clients. Will I sell into breeding programs?...  limited, but my refusal is not personal to an individual... you just have to be willing to work with mentoring. 

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Libbie,

I bred my spotted Bengal to a Marble and got five spotted kittens also. She is now bred to another Marble, does this mean I have a chance of getting Marbles this time? I get confused . I know Marble to Marble gives you all Marble, Correct?  I was looking to increase spot size and that was why I went to a Marble.

These are two different questions.

The first answer is is yes, but you sometimes need more than one litter to know if the cat is homozygous for spotting. Since the marble is a simple recessive... that is it is inherited in a way we have found predictable.... you have to have at least 9 kittens breeding to either a marble or a known heterozygous spotted... to better know, and then you are not 100% sure!

The second issue is how to increase spot size. I am not convinced this is done by introducing marble... Let's look back at the Asian leopard cat model. We know they are homozygous for spotting... and they have large spots that run horizontally as pattern, not vertically. The main difference I see between the non-domestic look and the domestic look is the horizontal flow. The introduction of marble, which is really the classic tabby gene modified by the horizontal flow, is that you often end up with a circular Bulls eye pattern of spotting. This is called a broken classic pattern   but it moves us away from the horizontal. I see lots of Ocicats with the broken classic spotting.... and we want to have a distinctly different look in order to be easily recognized as a breed.

So, as to how to increase spot size. Many of my largest spotted cats, do not carry marble so I feel that this spotting is coming from the non-domestic line.

It is fun working with the Bengal... but what a challenge! I am constantly trying to understand and phrase appropriately what is unique to the Bengal and coming from the non-domestic in the genetics. Any help that breeders of other breeds can give are very appreciated, especially the proper phrasing of what we are seeing.

From England a Breeder asks:  

"What causes the fading of the pattern?"

I have sent cats to England for breeding for precisely the reasons that you mention in your email. It is difficult to get the rufusing and not loose the spot coloring... which is something I have concentrated on attaining and holding. 

When the spotting goes from the tip of the hair to the skin... and this is an important trait to look for in the spotting, it tends to hold and not fade in the same way. The background color is also important... not because of the color itself as much as the way the colors are spread on  the hair. Each hair will have what is referred to as agouti banding, this banding is like layers of stripes on the individual hair and give a banded look seen when you rub the hair backward on the body. The greater the difference in shading of the hairs the more fuzzed or diffused the coloring, which I feel, leads to a blurring and lack of contrast. So the
background clarity also is important. 

It is a tricky thing when breeding to get the color density of the spotting (far down the hair shaft) and the color clarity in the background (a small gradation of color in the hair) ... but it is being done! 

Breeders will often wonder what on earth you are doing looking at their kittens and rubbing your hands backward on their coats though!!! But it is an excellent tool for understanding the kitten. (Keep in mind kittens go through different periods of development in the coat.) 

I have some highly rufoused cats with brown, not black spotting, that hold their color because of spot depth and background clarity. I consider them wonderful examples of how to hold onto color and yet have the non fading factor. But I will admit, they are hard to find and hard to hold onto. 

I was wondering how it is possible to tell whether a young kitten will become quite rufoused when it grows up. Can you tell from the kitten itself or do you have to look at  the parents?

 The black spotted kittens take a year for the complete coloring to come in well, and are more difficult to see... however, you can tell somewhat by looking at the face, feet, and shoulder area on an 8 week old to begin to see. The gray kittens with lack of rufinism on the face will not have a vivid coloring. 

And if only one of the parents is rufoused, is that enough to pass it on to the kittens?

Maybe, if the other parent carries the coloring as I am not 100%convinced that it is a dominant gene that we are dealing with, or a recessive. The reason I think it a recessive that must be at least carried is the work I have done, which of course is anecdotal... but experienced! 

Also I have seen some cats here, adults, that have quite a dark background colour, to the point where you the spots almost blend in. How does one avoid getting a cat that will turn like that?

 Look at the coat and the way the coloring lies. When you see these adults, ask the owners if you can pet them and rub the hair backward... I bet you will find a lot of difference in color from hair tip to hair base... this is what I find makes the diffused coloring. Look for clarity in the background and deep color on the spotting... be it dark brown or black, it should be deep on the hair. 

And conversely, how does one avoid buying one with spots that fade?

Same. Rufunism tends to turn on and continue throughout the life of the cat. So that the red tones of a kitten, can overpower the whole cat by four or five years. This is one reason that I think we would be better to be putting titles on mature cats not the young ones of a eight months to two years... but we do not. Many of the top titled cats in the States are poor examples as adults.... and it is sad to see that these genes have been way overproduced. To avoid fading you again must look at the way the hair is set up on the background and on the spotting. As the rufunism turns on it will not overcome clarity... but it does sometime effect
spotting as well, turning dark spots more browned.... 

If the parents carry snow, does that increase the likelihood of fading?

This is an excellent question, and one that has been talked about a lot by a few of the breeders here in the States. We do not have proof that this is so, and so I would have to say that though some have spoken of this as true, I have cats (personally) that have faded and they did not carry snow... so, it is not 100%. Perhaps it is the same heat sensitive color gene that gives the darker points to the Siamese and other albino series cats... but again it is just a theory at this point. 

Hope this helps. 

Good questions! And good luck... temperament is so important as well!

Libbie Kerr

Does carrying blue or melanistic do anything to improve the color in the browns or the clarity of coat or anything?

Absolutely none.  Breeders worked on this myth some time ago, and found that if anything it obscured pattern.  This has not shown to be correct genetically.  I asked breeders of different breeds who carry all of these colors and the genes involved are different from the ones giving clarity.   Clarity is from a lack of differentiation in the agouti banding in the background and a depth of pattern color on the spotting.   These are separate genes.  

 Is there a reason to clear the lines of recessives that are not accepted (presuming that one is not working on that particular color)? 

In my opinion, carrying the recessive colors are the least of our  heterozygous problems.... however, since we are trying to produce a breed that replicates the non-domestic, we might want to work toward more homozygous cats for the non-domestic phenotype. This would take us away from the blues and blacks. The main effect I look for in our spotted pattern is flow. Horizontal to me equates non-domestic.

If there is a spotting gene as Robinson suggested, does the marble pattern-have-any effect on it? 

The spotting of the Bengal is different from the broken classic spotting or the broken mackerel spotting found on the domestic spotted cats.  It has a definite pull to the horizontal, or at least does ideally.  The marble pattern of the Bengal is also affected by the non-domestic horizontal pull.  

My F3 has such gorgeous spots that I would never (at this point anyway) consider mating her to a marble. Please clue me in as I-really feel like I am missing something here, and sometimes it is very scary to be breeding while thinking I am missing something. 

The issue to me is more how the pattern is flowing.  So if I found a very horizontal male that is marble, I might consider him.  However, my first choice would be a more horizontal spotted.  That way you have homozygous for spotting... leaving more options for the next generation!  

I am a new breeder and really like the idea of the under my feet cattery... where kittens are never caged.  What do you think? 

When I first began breeding, I thought the very best situation was to allow the mother to be in my closet where I could easily play and see the babies. It took me a while to recognize that there are some very big negatives about this.

1. Babies are moved frequently. This may not seem a problem and sort of cute, however, babies have been moved to places where there is considerable danger to them. You also cannot handle them and waste a lot of time searching for them.
2. On carpeting. Carpeting feels appropriate for elimination... thus you have toddlers who do not understand that carpets are not for litter box use.
3. Carpets, hold in odor and germs and viruses. After an outbreak of URI that I could not control, I soon realized that it did not lend itself to sterilization
4. Caging... it is a hated word for some. However, cages that are large and of a surface that easily cleaned and disinfected, allows for cleanliness, upkeep, handling of kittens and close observation for the first three weeks.
5. Kittens do not move around a lot those first three weeks and an area that is easily cleaned and monitored is a definite plus. Get an area large enough for a carrier (what I use for birthing boxes) and food and litter, plus mine has a shelf for mom to climb up on to get away from the crew occasionally.
6. At around 3 weeks of age when they begin moving about, the door is opened and they have a large nursery to explore and romp in. The nursery is a vinyl floor so that they learn to use the litter box, they are kept with their mom there until they are at least 8 weeks of age.
7. At 8 weeks, litter trained and eating on their own with their first vaccine series done, they enter into the world of the two legged ones.... here they have carpeting, couches, TV, stereo and all sorts of comings and goings to hear and see.

This method allows me to follow their health, keep them isolated in groups so that we do not mix litters and contain any possible contagions.... and so on.

I allow my kittens to be handled by any and all who visit...  I am not suggesting this is the only way... and I am constantly improving and modifying, but this is a very useful way to raise, healthy, happy, and well socialized kittens.

It has been shown in the latest behavior studies, that the more people who handle the kittens between 2-8 weeks, the more human bonded the kittens become.  This is what we want... human bonded.  

This is part of an article written to answer some questions on glitter.  Written in 1996. 


The importance of glitter. 

Under the microscope, glitter appears as hollow air space surrounding the color of the hair. It is sometimes described as bubbles of air, almost crystal like . The effect glitter gives to rufoused coats is that of gold sparkles. The effect on the coat of the seal lynx, seal sepia, and seal mink is that of crystals. Like ice on a tree limb, glitter refracts the light and enhances the color. So far, the Bengal is the only domestic breed of cat to actually be noted for its glitter, even though no mention is made of glitter in the TICA Standard. 

This introduction leads to the main question.... How important is glitter? 

It adds to the uniqueness of the Bengal, giving one more attribute that clearly identifies the Bengal. The reason clear and distinct characteristics are important is because the differences in cats are so small... Cats do not have the variation is size of dogs and the differences worked on are not so apparent and easily identified. Especially on spotted breeds such as the Bengal, Ocicat, Egyptian Mau, and Spangled Cat. One of the main ways a new breed is formed and identified is by revealing on the phenotype those characteristics that make the breed clearly distinct from other breeds. Glitter is clearly distinct and for that reason alone is important to the Bengal. However, being a recessive gene, it is fairly easily introduced into the gene pool. This being the case other breeds of cats can and will in the future exhibit the Bengal shine. 

Different coat textures seem to effect the glitter. 
    1.    The cats that appear more glittered usually have shorter, velvet napped coats that refract light more because                 of  surface exposure. 
    2.  Black hairs do not seem to have glitter... they appear to be of a different texture than the glittered hairs. 
    3.  Not all hairs are glittered in the same way... some tend to have gold glittter only on the hair tips. This is                   something entirely different from the hollow air glitter. 

A very interesting aspect on the history of glitter is that it  is inherited from the cat Millwood Tory of Delhi. Tory has an interesting history, some day maybe Jean Mill will share this with you, and he is also registered in CFA as an Indian mau, Millwood Toby of Delhi. (This might explain to some of the confusion on those registration papers!) Tory had agouti banding with his spotting and glitter. The inheritance of glitter has long been combined with the augouti banded hairs, it was not until recently that Bengals have been produced with clear coats, minimal banding, spots going from the hair tip to the skin and glitter. The effect is highly contrasted and very dense patterning. 

Glitter has been controversial. Some feel that it should be added to the Bengal Standard while others feel that to do so would make too narrow a gene pool. (Remember it is traced back to one cat) As we progress with our breeding 
programs there are many considerations. Glitter is simply the icing on the cake. 

Glitter is recessive. If you have : 
Glitter = GL    Non-glitter = NG 

ADDED NOTE:  March 25,2001

The question continues about the two different types of glitter.  

These all are inherited as recessives.  Further study and research needs to be conducted.  Science project anyone? 

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